Rename Poll: Finals

[Ciel]

This is it, the finale! Whichever is in the lead by tonight will be the victor.

[Palin]

so what this really tells me is that there are only 7 people who care or get on the forums. :)

[Ciel]

Pretty much. That's why I think we need to adopt the JL policies. Allowing people to do as they wish implies that we have site content that keeps people coming for more. We don't even have a decent website, and I want to avoid using Druple.

In any case, nobility wins. Time to get to work!

[Pojosama]

I missed this poll due to computer error however i would have voted for the "Keepers of Fate"

[Kratos]

same, i would have voted keepers, been busy the last couple days with working nights and my brothers wife had her twins in the hospital just yesterday!

[Pojosama]

same, i would have voted keepers, been busy the last couple days with working nights and my brothers wife had her twins in the hospital just yesterday!
congrats havea cigar

[Ciel]

Thunder, Balu, and Mondays would have voted Nobility. That would make it 7.
You two would bring Fate up to 5. If I were to count your votes I would have also had to count theirs. Nobility would win either way.

[The Illusive Man]

I demand a recount! :D

[Lonestar]

Thunder, Balu, and Mondays votes all had hanging chads, so im sorry but they dont count.

Why nobility though? Havent nobility been rich land owners who have been hated by the common man throughout history? lol just wondering

[Ciel]

It was a suggestion Bonehead added to the list. We're bringing back a more JL sort of feeling with JL sort of policies. Respect, courtesy, etc. Those are "noble" concepts.

[Morod]

Or a name some schoolgirl would think of.

[Ciel]

only in your silly little mind shehanigan :p

[Morod]

Not in my mind; in the mind of those who voted against the name. It wasn't 7-1. It was 4-3. The name isn't as popular as you're making it out to be. I'm glad you're all up for noble stuff, and I am too, but the name is ridiculous, makes us look like a gaming review site or distributor and will be hard to make tags or explain. But I don't care either way. It's a name.

Just dropping my 2 cents, since I always do, and as I give you my good opinions so will I give you the other side of the coin.

[Blaze]

I don't see what's wrong with Nobility Gaming. I'm not sure where you're getting this school girl thing from, but ok.

[bonehead]

Seriously, expand on what you don't like about it. Saying "it is something a schoolgirl would come up with" isn't going to cut it. If you can't think of a more concrete description or come up with a viable alternative, then keep your mouth shut.

I didn't like any of the original names, so instead of bitching about it, I talked to Jase and asked what he was going for with the name. He gave me a few themes he was trying to hit on, so I brainstormed and gave him a few I came up with that I liked better. It just so happened that he, Jon and Sora all liked Nobility so it got added to the voting list.

If you have some better suggestion, I, and I am sure the other people here are open to suggestions. Until then, don't say things like that.

[Morod]

It's simple. Nobility Gaming is a name that, first of all, does not embody the meaning it has. When you mention Nobility Gaming, it immediately strikes an RPG sense into the readers mind. That is the first thing I told Jase and the community that attended the meeting to NOT do - chose a name which evokes a specific genre into the mind. For obvious reasons, this name does not do that. When you think of Nobility, you think of Kings, Dukes, Earls and the likes - the ranks proposed - and things which embody medieval story, which people immediately link to RPG.

Second of all, the name lacks a sense of gaming. It's nice. It's grammatically correct, but guess what? It sounds like a company or some sort of mogul related to gaming reviews, which is not the business proposed. A name which lacks any type of orientation is, again, highly desirable. The name should make it clear we're a clan, a group, or a community. This name doesn't do that. And you can argue "we can talk to them about the name" but you clearly know first impressions count more than attended for, and it's the reason JL was successful (remember how good our server management and players always were?)

Third, the name sounds like a schoolgirl's business because it's just that. When you think of nobility, you immediately garner up what Lonestar brought up. He's just more proof this name is going in the wrong direction, not because it's girlish or idiotic, but because it's highly misrepresentative of the purpose of the community, something I commented a thousand times to Jase. Something a schoolkid brings up in a rush. And it sounds fad in my opinion, but I do say, this is MY opinion (the first two points are clearly unpalatable).

Last, before YOU start bitching and coming off across like an asshole (and I know you're not), why don't you take your facts straight before talking shit? I proposed a plethora of names to Jase, some he considered, and some he did not. Blaze and a few others blatantly proposed to anything with sense of older times, except the name The Praetori (which Jase considered later on). When he told me of this idea (Jase about Nobility Gaming), I said what I felt of the name, but I immediately told him if the rest of the community felt it was OK, I'd go with it. A name is stupid and useless, and it's the clan essence what matters. I don't care about the name, it's the least important thing, but it's what gives off a first impression; keep that clearly in perspective.

Bone, If you want to make a shit out of yourself saying junk which is clearly not right and biased because you like the name AND you proposed it, fine by me. But this isn't just something to fool around. The name, as the clan's future direction, need to be cast in iron and set well if we want to get somewhere with success. This issue with the name is highly immature, unnecessary and just proves we're not going to get along if we start off like this. If you want to start off dissing people, then alright. But that's not what we all want in the interest of the whole community. I gave ideas, and some were approved but you didn't like them. You didn't piss on my suggestions and clearly articulated you didn't like them. So did I. Not a reason for you to go ballistic. No one has "bitched about it".

And I repeat myself, I know you're not like this, but I am highly surprised you came off like a dickwad. You know me, and I am pacific, but I am not going to let you try and stomp me when you're clearly more than misinformed. I gave a lot of suggestions and feedback to Jase, so before you point fingers, research a bit more. Just like real investigative work you do in your graduate studies.

EDIT: And before you jump in the "the name is for the noble values part" like Jase has, keep it clear people won't think that when they find us out. First impression = immediate win, or loss. I highly think this name does not make for a good first impression, for what I said above.

[Ciel]

If you were to take into account the opinions of people who have not voted, the poll would have turned out like this:
Nobility Gaming - Blaze, Bonehead, Sniper, Wraith, Thunder, IHateMondays, and Balu
Keepers of Fate - Lonestar, Shadowfire, Shehanigan, Pojosama, Palin, Kratos, Jase

That's 7 v 7. Given how extremely close this actually was, despite what the poll itself says, I think over the weekend we need to seriously discuss which of the two we use. The point of these polls was to eliminate the names I had chosen out of all of our cumulative suggestions, and it did so extremely well. So well that we are now split between two names. Some of us love one and hate the other, and a few of us could serve as a swing vote.

I'm open to us debating between the two, but I do not want this to turn into a frenzy of hateful posts. We've all stuck together for quite a while and through some troubling times, and we've all had our share of disagreements with each other. Whatever name we choose has to be the right choice, and something that will not only sound good and fit our rules and structure, but also attract new recruits without us having to open our mouths. I'm less concerned with what you think is corny, and more concerned with what the outside world thinks. Some of the most successful clan names (most of them) have the words knight, blades, etc. somewhere in their name. Most of them begin with "The", etc. Yet they still succeed, people still give interest to them even when they don't know anything about them, and clearly the names sound interesting. Games like Guild Wars had a rather unique naming method, but this was mostly due to the type of players it attracted. Guild Wars is in reality a very limited player base which does not stretch across genres or titles (as is evident by Thunder's and Sam's hatred for World of Warcraft and similar titles which do not offer much in terms of immediate pvp.) PvPers are less interested in a serious atmosphere and more interested in skill and opportunities to defeat the other player. However, I've seen my share of PvPers who are okay with names like The Knights of The Elder Lords, Heaven's Fury, The Crimson Blades, etc. All of these names, though on the surface may seem like an "RPG" name, they could easily be used in any genre and in any game (except for hello kitty....) The only time a name would not fit a genre is if you were to name a group something specifically pertaining to a topic, such as "Jedi" or "Sith".

Given that I am the primary (and only) leader on this site, and that ultimately the name we choose falls on my lap, I want to give you a task. During the course of the weekend persuade me which name to go for. Whoever can give me the best and most unbiased reasons will win me over, and thus that will be our new name.

I want each and every one of you to understand that either one of these names could be our new domain name come Monday. So be prepared for the name you are hoping to win to be dropped, because as is now clear by this thread, a group of people are going to be disappointed. That said, this is no reason to get hateful. Bonehead was right in the manner in which he proposed his ideas to me. We discussed what I was going for and he gave me several suggestions, nobility being the better of the few. I was saving my vote in the last two polls in the case of a tie. Had I voted, I would have voted for Keepers of Fate.

Why? I like the name and the ring to it. We could do a lot with the name, it is safe from redundant words (Keeper and Fate are hardly ever used in clan names) and it's clearly original. It also holds meaning for all of us. Everyone on this site was a member of JL save a select few, and those who were not have been a member of NeoCetra at some point and have stuck around. Most groups, when they die, see all of their members disperse never to reunite. Such is the "fate" of the majority of online groups. We, however, have never suffered this fate. When we get knocked down, we get back up and try again. Over, and over again. Sure, some of use have joined other groups at some point for other games here and there, but we never actually left. We're all awaiting the moment we can all be reunited. Thus the fate of this site, whatever it's name is to become, and whatever games we play in the future, is not subject to the normal happenings of the net. We control our own destiny. We are the "keepers" of our fate. Thus, "Keepers of Fate" holds real meaning.

I've tried to respect everyone's interests and opinions. However, we have very different personalities and interest. I'm a college student with aspirations for creative writing and want to make many stories of distant lands, universes, etc. Bone and Shehanigan are going to be technicians, and Wraith is going to be working with computers (right?). Sora has always done computer-related jobs, and Jon is interested in computer-related fields. Kratos works on building structures, and Sniper is interested in the military. We're a diverse group of people, so it's foolish to expect one name to please everyone. I like names with mythical surroundings, as do some of the rest of us, while others seem to be interested in simpler names and are extremely picky to the point of being ridiculous.

Thus, again, keep the debate respectful. As much as I like you guys, I have no qualms breaking up a fight. This should not be something that breaks anyone away from the group we have. In the case of you Shehanigan and you Bonehead, neither of you really interact outside of these boards. At some point we'll all be playing a game together, so I suggest everyone get used to one another. There will be many more people to come in the months ahead (I hope). Best get used to who we have now, right now.

[bonehead]

Everyone I talked to and suggested "Nobility Gaming" to immediately jumped to the idea of nobility in the sense that the people have values. The rank system was something Jase then later suggested because it just happened to work. Would "Noble Gaming" garner a different impression? Something like "The Praetori" suggests that it belongs in a game in an old setting to me, to be honest, but here is the thing, it doesn't really matter because if you are doing it right, most members are going to be recruited out of the games you are playing. If I am playing a space sim and see a clan called "Nobility" or "Praetori", I don't just think "hey they are probably only into MMOs." If I see them in a space sim, I would likely think they like space sims. Same goes for any other genre. People will take it in the context of where they hear it. If I hear something like "Knights of Valor" in anything except for a medieval game, though, I would just think it is a relatively uncreative person. Genre neutrality is only important insofar as it needs to be able to fit in whatever genres are played. You shouldn't have something with "Jedi" in it if you are playing Team Fortress 2, you shouldn't have something with "Knight" in it if you are playing StarCraft, you shouldn't have anything with "Space Marines" in it if you are playing WoW. As long as your name fits decently in any genre you play, you don't have to worry about the general public's first impression because, as I previously stated, the people we are really interested in are going to judge it based on the context of the game they are in.

Here is the thing, I am incredibly tired of names like "[nouns] of [noun]", "The [adjective] [nouns]" or anything else similarly generic. Most of them sound incredibly goofy, and unless you are playing one specific game, they don't usually work because they are difficult to make genre neutral. Just in general, I think the names sound uninspired and generally just aren't very appealing to me if I see clans with those names. In fact, the 3 most popular and most successful multi-game clans I have ever been a part of (aside from JL, which was a single game clan so doesn't apply here) were called "Geezer Gaming", "killer [bananas]", and "1Love". All of them had people literally lining up to join at various parts of their histories and had to turn plenty of people down. All of them played games competitively and had at least moderate success. All of them had one other thing in common: unique names. Is "Nobility Gaming" the most unique name I have heard? No, but it was the best we came up with in a 5 minute brainstorming session working off of the themes that Jase wanted.

Let's think about what a name for a multi-game group should be. It should be unique. It should be something that says a little bit about the group. It should be something that is valued by the group. "Geezer Gaming" was a group that only allowed gamers over 18 years old with few exceptions. It was unique and said something about the group. Coming up with the name "killer [bananas]" was actually an interesting story, but it was unique and said we were somewhat goofy and didn't take it super seriously. "1Love" was, for most people, associated with the Bob Marley song (and that actually was the origin of the name) and was unique as well and reflecting our very laid back nature. If we want to explore other options, we need to start out by writing down a list of key words or phrases that describe our group that we can play off of. The ones we generally use to describe us are fairly difficult to work with without using words like "noble" and "virtue." Those alone are hard to make into an attractive name, let alone replacing them with something more unique.

Heck, if it was up to me, we would be called "Also Known As" with the tag [AKA] or something ridiculous like that. We change names so damned much that we are now CC aka MPGN aka NC aka JL aka whatever else we have been called. Maybe something like "Obstinate Gaming" or "Stubborn Gamers" would reflect that we are too stubborn to quit trying to form clans. That probably doesn't jive with Jase's more serious demeanor as compared to mine, so we have to have a better discussion that gets everyone involved to see what people want. Where do we want to fall on the seriousness scale?

And frankly, I don't really care if I came off as an asshat. I consider statements such as "a name some schoolgirl would think of" to be a great example of asshattery. In fact, that is asshattery at its finest, so before you cast stones, maybe you should check on the things you say.


Bone and Shehanigan are going to be technicians

You have to watch how you word that. There is a VAST difference between technicians, technologists, engineers and scientists.

[Ciel]

Throughout the discussions and meetings pertaining to the new name, I think the current crown of "asshattery" goes to Mondays for blatantly laughing out loud on vent (meaning he had to push down the key to be heard) at one of my suggestions, The Gazers, when the name is actually the name of a cult in one of my stories. He said something along the lines of it sounding gay and something only a homosexual would like. Then someone else compared it to being a tazer used to suppress gay people. That was a very immature response, and to make my comments get back on topic, would result in administrative action because it would be very disrespectful and inconsiderate. It would certainly yield a warning, and warnings don't stack with me, they progress to suspensions. Whatever we change our name to, that is a primary example of the type of things I will not tolerate. I can handle it in the real world, but for a friend and supposed member of a group to act in such a manner? No. Not even if it's sarcasm. Sarcasm is meant to be funny to more than the person making the comment. If it's insulting, it's called being a dick. No dicks will be allowed here.

Thanks for the lengthy response Bone. I see precisely what you're talking about. I'm interested to read Shehanigan's rebuttal, as well as see what Kratos has to say to all of this, because between the three of you, you guys were the most helpful in deciding on a name.

Edit:
You have to watch how you word that. There is a VAST difference between technicians, technologists, engineers and scientists.
o rly? :p

[Morod]

Bonehead, you're an ass at times. :P

In all seriousness, I completely agree with bonehead. We need to sit down and really think about this issue, and start doing an intensive brainstorm which involves ALL of us and what we like. Jase has a good point, we'll never completely fit if we try to smack one's opinion into the others. Thus, I say we start a list of what we value in gaming and as persons, and form it to be quite representative, and start brainstorming names from said list. This will enable us to thus choose a name that responds not to our train of thoughts, but to our interests and values; which will just add even more meaning to the game.

Sorry to disappoint you about the short post Jase, but bone couldn't have put it better. So... who volunteers to start off the list?

EDIT: Or the list can make us go for one name or the other. I don't know. Just food for thought.

[bonehead]

o rly? :p

Technician jobs go to people who went to a trade school or two-year school and are things like machining or other technical trades that don't need a 4 year degree. Generally, technologists do a variety of things that are similar to technicians but at a higher level and usually have engineering technology degrees. They also do some of the things engineers do but more superficially. Engineers have that 4-year engineering degree and do the in-depth design and analysis work and pass down the grunt work to technicians and/or technologists. Scientists do research.

Just FYI.

;-)

[The Illusive Man]

I like bonehead's example with "Also Known As [AKA]". It basically fits right in with our history with changing names a lot and it is genre neutral. It could possibly attract a lot of people.

[Morod]

I found it amusing and highly fitting as well, but I don't know if it gives that serious stance Jase is looking for. I mean, once they're in we could make the rules of the game clear, but like I said, it's better if we discuss it in-depth and all agree with it (or the majority anyways).